True Crime Conversations

00:02 It's just before 8am on a brisk morning in Sydney in Redfern and I'm outside Redfern Police Station. Feeling a bit anxious because today I'm going to be riding alongside police as they arrest high risk domestic violence offenders as part of Operation Amarok. Tactical and high impact teams conduct early morning raids to get the worst of the worst. Offenders who have breached ADVOs or bailed compliance checks or have evaded arrest until now. 00:29 I don't really know what to expect today. I've heard stories of police interrupting DB in progress or having to chase perpetrators onto public buses. 00:39 What I do know is this is the front line of domestic violence policing. This is the force attempting to put a dent in the scourge that is DB in this country. But... 00:51 Is it making a difference? I'm Gemma Bath, and this is a special episode of True Crime Conversations. 00:59 When New South Wales Police invited us on an exclusive ride-along to witness arrests as part of Operation Amarok, a statewide blitz cracking down on alleged high-risk domestic violence offenders, I had an image in my head of what to expect. 01:13 it was completely turned on its head. This blitz was to be the 14th iteration of the operation. And on the TV news, I'd seen footage of police at prior raids in helmets, carrying battering rams, marching single file towards people's doors. 01:29 What I discovered, riding alongside officers in the Central Metro Region DV offender team, however, was that most of the arrests they carried out looked a lot less dramatic. 01:40 In total, I saw four people arrested, two men and two women. 01:45 Multiple officers were there to carry out each one, but they were all in plain clothes. I was told it's easier to sneak up on people that way. They also find victims see them as more approachable. But it was strange, being surrounded by cops in jeans and a beanie. Given the nature of the operation, I'll admit I was expecting most arrests to be of alleged male perpetrators for crimes of intimate violence against female partners. We are losing a woman a week to a former or current partner after all. 02:16 But I only saw one arrest of that alleged nature. And as the two officers I was shadowing explained, many of the arrests they do are family members allegedly hurting other extended family members. 02:29 I caught up with Sergeant Price at the end of our five-hour ride-along to debrief. So tell me about today. It's Operation Amarok. What did we do first up? We were in Surrey Hills Redfern. What was the plan when we got there? 02:43 This morning we went to Surry Hills to arrest a female with an outstanding DV warrant. 02:49 We knocked for a while. The occupants initially refused to let us in. After a while they did let us in. The female we were looking for wasn't inside. However, there was two people inside that address who had AVO conditions not to be at the address. 03:05 Those two people were arrested and taken to Surry Hills Police Station. 03:09 We're still making inquiries to locate the female that we're looking for. 03:13 Can you tell me anything about the relationship of these people? 03:16 One was the son of the female and the other person was the female's mother. 03:23 So we arrested a grandma and a grandson essentially. 03:26 Yeah, that's right. Yeah. 03:28 Do you find during these operations you're doing a lot of these family kind of arrests or checks? 03:33 Yeah, it's very common that multiple people in one house may have ABOs with each other. They're not complying with those ABOs. And it's quite common when we go into a house, there may be multiple people in breach of those orders. 03:46 Would you say that you're doing more family kind of style arrests in these DV operations than like partner violence? 03:55 Partner violence ones are definitely there. It just depends on the day when we go there, I guess. But it is common that there is the family type domestic violence, AVOs. 04:07 From there, from that arrest, we had a few, I guess, false starts. You were trying to find people. What was happening? 04:14 So just after that one, we went to an address in Redfern. We confirmed on CCTV footage that a male, he had two outstanding warrants. 04:24 He was at the victim's house in breach of the enforceable AVO as well. The footage showed him leaving at 6.45. I think we got there about 8am, so we just missed him. 04:36 We made inquiries with the security of that building, confirmed that he wasn't at the location. 04:42 So we'll continue to follow that up and hope he goes back there. He'll be arrested. 04:47 He's breaching the AVO by being in that building as well. 04:51 And so that would have been for a domestic violence charge? 04:53 Yeah, it's relating to domestic violence. 04:56 The victim is that lady who lives at the address he was at this morning. 05:01 Is that happening a lot where they just go back to the... 05:03 Very common. Yeah, that's very common. Very common we pick them up when they're wanted or breaching the AVO conditions by being at the victim's address. 05:12 Are you going back to the same homes a lot? 05:15 Yeah, it's very common that we do that. Yes, definitely. 05:18 A little bit further on in the morning, There was a man that had been convicted of manslaughter. What were we checking in on him for? 05:27 Yeah, he was, I think it was some years ago, he was charged with murder. He was convicted of manslaughter, spent time in jail. 05:34 He's been released in the last few years. He's been charged with domestic violence offences for his new partners. He did an AVO, or attempted to do an AVO compliance check at his address in Randwick. 05:48 When we made those inquiries, he's actually in custody at the moment. 05:53 When you're doing these operations, is this typical that you're spending a lot of time kind of driving around, there's nothing there, you drive to another place, there's nothing there? 06:01 Yeah, we try to get to as many places as we can, do as many checks, try to arrest as many people as we can. So, yeah, it's very fast moving. Sometimes information comes in throughout the day that somebody may be at a particular location, so we respond quickly to that. 06:17 I'll admit I was expecting you to be in police uniform. 06:21 Yeah, no, we don't wear uniform in our team. It's, I think, a lot easier for us to catch people who are wanted if we're not in uniform. And I think a lot of victims prefer to speak to us outside of uniform as well. They feel a bit more comfortable. 06:35 Tell me about the two other arrests we've done today. There was a gentleman over in South Coogee. 06:40 Yeah, he had a warrant. It was issued two days ago. That was for a domestic violence offence, a breach AVO offence. He was arrested in South Koogee. He's gone back to Maroobah Police Station. 06:52 And one here in Maroobah, it's a female. She had an outstanding warrant for domestic violence offence as well. 06:59 And she's been arrested and going back to the police station as well. 07:03 Most of these people, will they be out of custody by the weekend? 07:08 Yeah, it's hard to tell. 07:12 Possibly. Some of these warrants, yeah, it's likely they will. 07:16 Some will be bail refused as well. 07:19 Perfect. And from here, what's the plan? It's about lunchtime. We've done four-ish arrests. What's the rest of your day look like? 07:27 We'll keep going. Hopefully the guy we were looking for in Redfern comes back, so we'll put ourselves in a position to arrest him if he comes back. 07:35 We'll just probably have lunch and then reassess and see where else we can go after this. 07:41 Thank you so much for your time. Good luck. I hope you get more arrests. 07:44 No worries. Thank you. 08:01 We're talking return flights for four, two nights accommodation, gift cards to cover airport transfers and meals, unlimited express passes and more. Bring the kids or take your group chat. To enter, just tap the link in the show notes and subscribe to Mamma Mia today. You'll instantly unlock all of our subscriber-only podcasts, articles and our fitness app, Move. Already a Mamma Mia subscriber? You're already in the running. Hit that link in the show notes now and become a Mamma Mia subscriber today to win the ultimate dream world holiday. 08:35 Offer ends August 31st. T's and C's apply. 08:38 Across the three-day operation, New South Wales Police charged 732 people, executing 228 arrest warrants and 12,054 ADVO compliance checks. 08:52 They identified 321 ADVO breaches and 225 bail breaches. 08:59 118 firearms were also seized. When you zoom out further and count up all of Amarok's work over the last three years, they've charged 9,067 alleged offenders and laid 18,756 charges. 09:16 There's no doubt they're impressive numbers. New South Wales Police has always said the goal is to show how relentless they are when it comes to this crime. 09:25 Amarok is certainly proving to be a high visibility crackdown, and it's pretty intimidating. 09:31 I asked Superintendent Danielle Emerton for some feedback on how it's been going. I'm interested. I know that this operation is targeting high-risk domestic violence offenders. What exactly does that mean? mean? What kind of offenders are we looking at? 09:48 So the operation is intelligence led and offender focused. So it aims to ensure the safety and wellbeing of domestic and family violence victims and the broader community. So we're looking at offenders who have that access capability and intent. of harming their victims. 10:07 Does that mean it's often repeat offenders or people that have been in the sights of police for a while? 10:14 Yes, usually that is the case. We have intelligence that will direct our police to those offenders. 10:20 I know you've done 14 iterations. 10:23 Would the same names be coming up in those arrests? 10:26 Yeah, often yes. They are repeat offenders. A lot of them have outstanding warrants. firearm prohibition orders and weapons prohibition orders that we go and do compliance checks on. 10:41 So yeah, that's what Operation AMROC is all about, us as checking on the compliance of offenders who have existing apprehended violence orders and the like. 10:54 Do you have a breakdown or know even anecdotally, if it's more men or more women being arrested? 11:01 I do have a statewide gender breakdown of POIs for Operation Amarok 14. So there were 27% female offenders and 73% male. Okay. So it is majority alleged male perpetrators. Yeah, that's correct. 11:19 And are the majority of those charges around intimate partner violence? 11:25 Yes. Yeah. Is it working? Is the operation helping people? 11:30 Absolutely. It's getting really serious offenders back behind bars. It's also ensuring that they know that police are onto them, particularly now that we're working in partnership and with cross-border policing. So we're working with a joint operation with ACT Policing and AFP and ACT Policing, they've modelled their Operation Shepherd on Operation Amarok. So they've got an operational blueprint and strategies and resources to help them organise their first operation. 12:08 Domestic violence is a crime that affects all communities and it remains a scourge on our society. So we're pleased to be able to share our successful operation with another law enforcement jurisdiction. 12:21 The number of arrests and charges are a huge for this operation and in previous AMROC operations. And it sort of talks to the scale of domestic violence in New South Wales. The numbers are concerning and one incident of domestic violence is one too many. 12:44 During the operation, we deploy all available resources including specialist officers to surge and use intelligence-led approaches to target offenders and we see these good results. 12:59 Obviously, with those huge amount of numbers, there's victims at the other ends of those. So have you heard from victims? I know you guys are mainly arresting and, you know, placing AVOs and stuff. But have you had any feedback from the victims on how they feel about it? 13:18 Well, yes. In cases that the police will attend homes, we do get to speak with victims. Obviously, a compliance check of an apprehended domestic violence order involves speaking to both parties, so the person in need of protection and the defendant. 13:37 So police do get to speak firsthand to our victims. And anecdotally, we are told that often these domestic violence incidences occur behind closed doors. So it's a time that they're actually usually very relieved that the police are ensuring that the compliance of these orders is occurring. 14:00 I couldn't help but notice doing a ride along with some officers in Redfern on Friday that 100% of the places we went to were lower socioeconomic areas, lower socioeconomic housing. 14:15 I know that DV, we all know that DV happens in any postcode, no matter where you live. 14:21 Is what I witnessed an accurate representation that a lot of these arrests are happening in those lower socioeconomic areas? 14:28 No, domestic and family violence occurs in all socioeconomic areas. It knows no bounds. It doesn't discriminate. 14:37 We respond to 160,000 incidences of domestic violence every year, which is one every three minutes. So, and also responding to domestic violence incidents takes up 60% of police time. So we are seeing it in all walks of life, all socioeconomic backgrounds, all different cultures. And yeah, it's definitely, it's a huge problem and it's a whole of government and society problem. And obviously police cannot rest our way out of this issue alone. 15:10 What's the plan from here? This has been going on since 2023. We've got another three years left of Operation Amarok. 15:19 Well, we've also launched other additional operations throughout the year, including Operation Surge to target domestic violence offenders. So we'll work every day. It's not just during these operations to investigate domestic violence incidences and arrest offenders. So while this operation, Operation Amarok, has been held over three days on this occasion, it forms part of an ongoing year-round strategy to apprehend our high-risk offenders. 15:47 Perfect. I think we'll leave it there. Thank you so much, Superintendent. 15:52 No problem at all, thank you. 15:53 If I'm being honest, it wasn't quite the answer I was after. Because while no one is outwardly against the Blitz, I've seen quite a lot of discussion from DV services saying they need more resourcing and funding to deal with the fallout. Because when police enforcement ramps up, so do their referrals. Right now, these frontline services are operating at above 150% of their funded capacity. And the bottom line is they're struggling to keep up with demand. 16:22 Both Domestic Violence NSW and Full Stop Australia have told the ABC the stronger police response needs to be matched with a properly funded support sector. In my search for answers, I asked NSW Police Minister Yasmin Catley how she measured success in this operation beyond the number of arrests. 16:41 Oh, well... 16:43 domestic violence not increasing, that would be the real measure of success, right? I've spoken on this program before about, you know, it's still going up. So the success is not certainly measured by arrests. 16:59 But it's keeping women safe, and that's important. That's really important. Unfortunately, in my role as police minister, I've seen too many women lose their lives at the hands of their intimate partner. That has to stop. That just has to stop. And we're doing our bit, certainly, in police. But broadly, community needs to do more too. We all need to be... And I know that various cohorts have different views, but... 17:27 I'm just really, I believe anyway, as a woman and as a mother, I believe that you have to say something if you know something. If I'm a girlfriend and my girlfriend's in a situation where she's experiencing domestic violence, I'd like her to talk to me about it and her and I to have that conversation. I'd like my daughters to be able to talk to one another and to talk to their friends so that they can have that conversation about they may not want to go to police and that's okay. but they need to be talking to someone and getting some advice on what to do because otherwise they could be putting their life at risk and those outcomes are not what we want to see or hear about. 18:02 In the 2026 to 2027 budget, an additional $184 million was dedicated to six frontline specialist DV programs over four years, which sounds amazing. But they've had no increase in funding for a decade. So even a 50% boost is just catching up on accumulated underinvestment, not funding new growth. 18:25 Ultimately, this is a good news story. We want our police to take DV seriously. And they are. We want high-risk repeat offenders to be targeted and put on notice. And they are. We're just missing that support services element to be taken just as seriously. I've had some time to digest the morning and really think about what I saw and watch the videos back of me pre-operation and what I thought I was going to be getting into. 18:58 I feel quite sad having witnessed that was two women arrested, a much younger woman, and then a much older woman, and then two men, a younger man and an older man. And speaking to the officers, you know, of course it's domestic relationships, like romantic relationships that take up a lot of this work, but it's also families. So those first two arrests, you You know, they were three generations of the one family that they were trying to arrest. 19:29 The grandson, the mother, the grandmother. And it's not the first time that they've been arrested. 19:36 And this is just a cycle, you know. 19:40 The other thing that I am reflecting on a lot is all of the arrests we went to and all of the places we tried to arrest in were all in lower socioeconomic areas or housing. 19:53 And we know that domestic violence happens everywhere, no matter where you live, no matter how rich you are, no matter how poor you are. 20:00 But this operation is targeting repeat offenders and I couldn't help but notice where we were. And then you can't help but think about all of the other factors that might be at play. All of the officers involved in the operation I was a part of were in plain clothes. 20:20 And they told me that they do that because one, they want to surprise the people that they're arresting. And two, because it makes victims more comfortable. They wanna talk to them more. But it was just really weird to see all of these different officers At the first arrest we went to, I thought one of the what turned out to be officer was just a nosy busybody. You know, he was wearing a beanie. He was leaning on the fence. And it wasn't until I saw the gun in the holster that I realized that he was a cop. Another cop at the second arrest was wearing a... 20:55 run faster past a shirt. You know, something you might see on someone down at the local pub on a Saturday. But that's how they roll, especially when it comes to arresting people that are evading arrest. All four of the offenders came quietly, came willingly, into the police cars, but they were all people that were being arrested for violent offences in the domestic violence space. But looking at them in a cop car or looking at them on a street, you don't see that. 21:27 And I think that's the important thing to remember that these people don't look scary, but you don't know what's happening behind closed doors. 21:35 Thank you for joining us for this special episode of True Crime Conversations. Make sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts so you never miss an episode and leave us a rating and review on Apple or Spotify. See you soon with another True Crime Conversation.